into a woman, who said you know i really like romney when he talks about business because i am a small businesswoman but i really like obama when he talks about women's issues and i wonder if her -- she is sitti at home watching this debate tonight in lakewood, colorado changed her mind or whether it formed her thinking or help her make it up, i don't think it did. >> rose: chuck? >> well i would just say, in baseball terms, because it might be possible the yankees orioles game may be out of the corner of my eye in the middle of a series. >> and exactly, but think of think way, so game one, romney won, game two, had, had ryan won this debate decisively and there is no way to look at it the polls are split on this, some polls give it to biden, on substance abide den controlled this debate, a debate coach may say. >> it was important to the biden campaign hot to lose this debate, a draw, even split, whatever you want, however you want to look at it, it was about getting to the next presidential debate while not keeping -- while sort of lifting up the base a little bit and i think on that